Manorhamilton, Republic of Ireland
In this episode we share two conversations with people we met in Manorhamilton in the Republic of Ireland, just across the border from Northern Ireland. Like so many things, conflict and tensions are not confined within a political line that is drawn on the map.
Carmel Loughlin grew up in the Republic of Ireland but spent time crossing the border frequently to visit family in the North, until the Troubles broke out when she was about 12 years old. She has spent much of her career in mental health, helping people navigate the ongoing challenges and lingering effects of the violence.
Lauri McCusker works in community development in an effort to make life better in County Fermanaugh. And while he becomes frustrated by “watching people find reasons and excuses for not creating positive change in our society,” he is driven forward, looking for the next — sometimes small — win for his community.
Manorhamilton, Republic of Ireland
“My mother used to always say, “Small things make a great difference,” and I honestly believe that small things do make a great difference.”
On mental health:
“I was involved in several projects for the betterment of mental health services for the people of this area and the other side of the border. Some of the people that I would have known would have lived through the war. They would have lived through the post-war. They were living through what was happening between north and south and different people had different perspectives on it. I can’t ever remember somebody saying to me, “My mental health has suffered because of the conflict or because of what has happened in the north.”
“I think people would be quicker to say the stress of what was happening along the border affected their physical health but they might have been slower to even identify that it was impacting on their mental health. Maybe that’s very much in line with stigma and all of that as well that people could identify how it was affecting them physically but maybe not mentally.”
On crossing the border and family connections:
“Most of my summer holidays, my Christmas holidays, and my Easter holidays I would have spent with my aunt and her husband in Newtownards in County Down and I would have spent quite a bit of time with my uncle and his wife and their two sons in Belfast and that was right up until 1969 and then the Troubles started in 1969.
“My memory of it — and I hope it’s accurate — was that there was a shooting. I was in Belfast with my uncle and his wife and they lived in Andersonstown which would have been the Nationalist area and there was a shooting just down the road from their house so my parents wanted to get me home as quickly as possible. I would have been 12 at that time and my memory is that we really didn’t go back to the north or we certainly didn’t go as far as Belfast.
“We didn’t do any visiting or any staying with family for many years except for funerals. Maybe wedding celebrations. My aunt was sick, my my uncle died quite unexpectedly, and his wife then subsequently died 11 years later. So those would have been the trips that we would have made then whereas before that we would have traveled freely.
“And then once the peace process started I would always have went to the north and would have been quite comfortable in going to the north my husband wouldn’t have been comfortable in going to the north really at all. He always would describe it when he crossed the border he got this feeling in his tummy and he just was fearful of it whereas I didn’t have that because I really felt the north was part of me and part of my whole person.
“I would always want to go back to the north and want to go back to family and spend time with family and I suppose it’s not until you begin to reflect on what you’ve lost that you realize that there was a whole part of my life from 1969 until the peace process began that you really didn’t move freely between both.
“And sometimes reflecting on that is quite painful because you’ve lost a big chunk of time with family and particularly my uncle. He didn’t have a daughter and he always considered me the daughter that he never had. So I would have only seen him a few times and he died very unexpectedly in 1977. So I really have terrible regrets that there was that absence. Regret that we didn’t have the relationship that we could have had if the Troubles weren’t there. Lost opportunities I suppose is the better word.
“It’s one of the questions that I would always ask myself was what was it all about? Because the peace process came about by people sitting down together from the two sides and talking. It was a huge long process but it all began, so why could we not have done that back at the beginning, before all these lives were lost?”
Manorhamilton, Republic of Ireland
“A large part of our work is working with others to create change and to do positive things. You see kids being educated together in preschool and the parents coming together based on their interests about their child’s education. Not on you’re a Catholic or you’re a Protestant or you’re a Hindu or you’re a Muslim but coming together and saying, “Now how can we work better to do this for our children?” That’s peace building.”
On doing the hard work:
“I’m a 54 year old, cynical man. I have a lovely wife and two lovely kids. And I spend my day time as a community developer trying to make a positive contribution to life in County Fermanagh and beyond.
“I’m getting old and crabid. And trying to create positive change requires people to come along with you. And sometimes in the space I’m in, which is sometimes around trying to change policy, it’s tough. And watching people find reasons and excuses for not creating positive change in our society … when you’ve been at this crack for 30 plus years, you start getting cynical.
“I think what’s important to do is just keep on focusing on what you can influence and control.
“And sometimes you have to re-energize yourself with that in that space. That’s getting a new win, another win. So, you know, in my space it might be helping a group or organization achieve something fab. It might be establishing a new fund, which helps people in a different way. It might be entering a new partnership with a company or with an organization to do something new.
“So I suppose that’s where I get the buzz out of.
“You’re going up to Fermanagh House tomorrow. That was an ambition of ours to create a space in Fermanagh, which would be a really positive social enterprise. That’s a win. That gives you a buzz.
“But then you have to manage it and run it and that puts weight on the shoulders. But at the same time, I walk in Fermanagh’s house, that’s where I’m based, that’s where our work is based. But the vast majority of work is out and about in the community across Fermanagh and beyond. But you go into that space and you see people convening, people coming together in shared spaces, doing things which they’ve shared interest in. People coming together based on maybe a health issue or a social issue, and people laughing, smiling, thinking, we’ve helped make this happen, you know? And seeing that day and daily is really positive.”
On staying and making it better:
“Growing up in County Fermanagh in the 70s and 80s, there wasn’t much choice to do much other than emigrate. In my household, it wasn’t a rich household. It was a very working class.
“We didn’t have a car about the house or anything like that. There was low income in the 80s. So we’re at the height of the Troubles.
“And the main valve around the economy for people was, if you could get out, you got out. Emigration was rife. People were leaving. Now people are leaving by choice. It’s a lifestyle choice, whereas then it was economic. They felt like they had to.
“Where I grew up, people, if they could get out, generally got out. In many cases, in my household, education was your vehicle for improving your lot. And something in my head around 13, 14 years of age, I got annoyed about this stuff. And I couldn’t understand why everybody was always leaving. And then when I was thinking about what I wanted to do, (9:20) my interest was around local community and around economic development. So I decided that that’s where my interest was.
“And so I went and decided that I would study something around those. (9:54) And I found a course which was called Local Economic Development and Planning. So I went over to England to study local economic development and planning. I was interested in what people can do within their communities to make their communities a better place. And so that’s where I got kind of my interest in creating change at a local level.”
On leadership:
“For me, the Good Friday Agreement came about because there were people in local communities across the North who wanted positive change. And they were articulate in that. And they were wanting to have a police service that they could engage with.
“Because in many communities, they wouldn’t engage with the police. So these things were happening. And that was the space I was in as well.
“So, we knew the status quo couldn’t keep on as it was. There had to be something positive happening. And I think what the political forces were hearing that from communities across the North. Things need to change. This can’t just keep on going.
“So, I think the appetite for change came in many different ways from many different people.
“Based on their experience, whether it was people directly involved in different paramilitary groups, or different people involved in policing, or people involved in politics. But from people involved in the community, I think the momentum was increasing that things have to change.
“And we need to have a police service here that we can draw upon. We can’t have this world where areas can’t have police in them. How do people like me sort out issues in your community? How do you respond to challenges? Because if you don’t have police, what do you have? Then you have the opposite of that, which is vigilanteism or other groups taking control of that space.
“So, the bottom line is, there was partition, which was the creation of Northern Ireland.
“Irish people, living in Northern Ireland, didn’t want partition. So, the British government imposed a partition. And then they put in place, the state had to manage that process.
“So, security and policing and the army and whatever else was part of that. Some people didn’t want that. So, they opposed it.
“Now, you know, I’m not going to rewrite history books or try to write history books here. But yeah, and there was political power at play. So, people were making political decisions based on separation, based on difference, based on saying, this is who we are.
“And that was the environment in which we were all living.
“For me, that was tough. Okay? So, elderly woman, every night, they might be getting a group of lads, or antisocial behaviour, or throwing eggs at her window or whatever. So, what do we do about that? So, what’s McCusker do about that? Does McCusker stand as a sentry guard outside the house every night. That’s not my job. That’s not a good use of my time.
“It might be for the first night, but, you know. So, what do you do?
“Well, working with the partnership that I was working on, which would include statutory members, we ultimately decided that we have to bring the police into this space. Community place. So, we worked quietly at first, building up trust between the community representatives and the police. And we had really good police officers who were the community police officers.
“I remember the first time they came into a meeting in the estate, in their uniform, into the meeting. And I was kind of, “Oh, this is brave.” This is brave, because this is not the message we’ve been told by others that this is acceptable. So, people are noticing, you know, right in the heart of the estate, they’re walking in with their uniform, into that community building.
“Sometimes the work I do, it’s leadership. It’s trying to, in small ways, it’s trying to say, okay, guys, we need these guys. So, I still remember the first time these guys were visibly walking round, chatting to the people out doing their gardens. And some of the people doing their gardens were really surprised. They’re not in a big fortified vehicle, they’re walking about, these community police officers.
“And then going into the community, the local community meeting with the community, not with all the staff, but with the community. And people were saying, wasn’t it great to see? And all of a sudden, it was becoming, so, you know, taking steps where it comes like, this is what we want, you know.
“To be honest, we would have been going, oh, there’s no book on where. But, it was leadership, you had to step up, you know, it was time for change. Subsequently, the politics followed that.”
On finding common purpose:
“You have only so many hours in the day. So how do you spend that time in a positive space rather than spend that time in a neutral or negative space? You can get drawn into all sorts of relationships, collaborations, whatever, which go nowhere. And you can spend undue time and energy and not be productive. I wish I had the wisdom sometimes to have not gone to some of those spaces.
“For me, it’s a simple thing. Ultimately, we share something here. We share a ground. And we have to share that ground. And, you know, people who love my place, who love my county, who have shared that ground for generations and generations, might see themselves in two different lands (1:03:03) or two different nationalities or two different religions, but ultimately, we share that ground.
“It’s not going to change unless the world comes to an end, we’re going to continue to share that ground. So rather than trying to figure out how we’re different. The thing is we have to figure out how to share the ground.
“So let’s focus on how best to share the ground and less focus on separation and difference. And I think for me, that’s the key in terms of community development. We have to figure out our common interests, our common themes, our common purposes, and then share how we develop and deliver those. I think that’s where people should focus.”
To read the introduction to this series, follow this link.
The Troubles: Finding a Path Toward Healing in Northern Ireland
To listen to our podcast, follow this link or find us on the platform of your choice.
A Peace of My Mind on Buzzsprout
Credits:
Interview and photos: John Noltner
Field production: summer interns Kate West, Sawyer Garrison, and Kaitlin Imai
Audio engineering: Razik Saifullah
Hi John–it was great to meet you when you were at the Interfaith Conference of Greater Milwaukee more than a year ago. Your work in Ireland is especially meaningful as my husband and I play Irish music and each have Celtic roots. One of the fellows that leads one of our favorite sessiuns groups left Ireland as a very young man when the Troubles started because it was unsafe to travel to do his music. He resettled here in the US and has continued to share his music freely, and his stories of feeling pushed from his homeland. We meet a lot of Irish people our age through our music who have experienced that. Things have changed here in the US now as well. We have very close family in both Chicago and Minneapolis, who have been touched close to home by the invasions and violence of ICE, and now we have been told to expect an incursion here in Milwaukee. It has been very frightening that nieces and nephews and grandchildren in our multi-cultural family could be vulnerable due to their immigration status or simply their personal appearance in all three places. My religion teaches “the inherent worth and dignity of all human beings”, and I certainly find that precept being challenged when ICE agents shoot a young mom and a male nurse in what can only be described as assassinations–especially knowing that we don’t even have any idea what has happened to all those who have been disappeared. In our own home town here in metro Milwaukee, soon after this malarkey started, a woman of Asian extraction was pulled off the street and “sent back” to a country she never came from. It is such a challenge to balance staying aware of what is happening so we can help in whatever way we can, and continuing to recognize and share in the love, beauty, and community that is possible. I look forward to your emails, they are such a source of comfort and hope for us as a country. Sincerely, (Rev. Dr.) Bobbie Groth